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On 4 January 2005, martin wrote re: Moorlands (Lancaster):"visited here last night and it had Black Cat. It seems to have had other Moorhouses beers recently. "; Reply

On 4 January 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Dalton Arms (Glasson Dock):"Excellent sample of Thwaites Bitter. Monday to Friday lunchtime Menu �3.95, �6.95 for two! "; Reply

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On 10 January 2005, The Sun Hotel wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"Finally... weeks and weeks behind schedule... The Sun Hotel & Bar is proud to announce that the long promised extension is now OPEN. We've tried to retain the character of the bar whilst offering a lot more seating and elbow/drinking room. As with the original Sun Hotel, whilst re-constructing the extension we uncovered a myriad of oddities and curiosities including hidden wall safes, ancient fireplaces and a working well - the well is now floodlit and glass topped for all to view. Comments welcome !!"; Reply

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On 11 January 2005, John Bell wrote re: Wagon & Horses (Lancaster):"Friendly riverside pub. I always start my crawl of Lancaster here. "; Reply

On 11 January 2005, John Bell wrote re: Water Witch (Lancaster):"Always excellent range and quality. Prices are steep, even more than the centre of Leeds! A must visit pub when in Lancaster. "; Reply

On 11 January 2005, John Bell wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"My favourite Lancaster pub. Great atmosphere and excellent beer quality. "; Reply

On 11 January 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Queen's (Carnforth):"A good sample of Jennings Cumberland Ale today. "; Reply

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On 16 January 2005, tim Tominson wrote re: White Cross (Lancaster):"I have just taken over the White Cross as your note say above in Oct 2004. I am a camara member although I can't lay my hands on my number at the moment. ( I need to change my address too) None the less, I have increeased sales of cask ale 5 fold since I moved here. Scot co are in the process of adding a further 2 pumps to give me a total of 6. I intend to sell cask boddies as it is my number 2 seller plus my brothers beer, Old Faithful from Tirril Brewery as regulars. After that I will rotate 1 session ale and one premium ale and one other guest. I am tied to the Enterprise inns guest ale list but this does allow me the likes of Hobgoblin, Pedigree, Deuchars IPA, Bombadier, and various beers on the SIBA list so watch this space. I am not trying to duplicate the Waterwitch offering but rather compliment it with a pub with a different flavour . I am a live in land lord owner who works the bar most days and nights so you would be very welcome to come and see for yourself the changes that are being made. I hope to see you soon and hope other members will come and try the ales I am now able to offer. Many thanks Tim tomlinson 0795 606 8161 NB please note new land line 01524 33 999"; Reply

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On 17 January 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"This place just goes from strength to strength - beers that previously were only in the imagination in Lancaster (eg Fullers ESB, Youngs Special - etc..) can be sampled here - and the new extension into the next door premises now open (albeit needing some cosmetic finishing) - this has been a rapid expansion, and although it has caused the management some headaches, it still bodes well for what has to be the best purveyor of good beer in town "; Reply

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On 30 January 2005, rich smoothy wrote re: New Inn (Yealand Conyers):"a haven for people,like me,who want good beer,food,warm and pleasant atmosphere.It saved us."; Reply

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On 1 February 2005, Collin Bolton wrote re: Royal (Silverdale):"Rumour has it that the Landlord of the "Royal" at Silverdale is Leaving in two weeks time to take over Pub in Preston!"; Reply

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On 4 February 2005, Rowland Hayward wrote re: Calderbank Country Lodge (Oakenclough):"Cask ales have just been introduced and it is intended to use Lancashire breweries whenever possible. "; Reply

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On 7 February 2005, Jenny wrote re: Punch Bowl (Bentham):"Message of the day - don't go to Low Bentham - direct route closed. One has to go up and round and down through the village via the Sun Dial. Gale says that she has got rid of the Worthington Bitter and the current sales are Copper Dragon[Golden Pippin - very scented], Everards Beacon[locals' favourite], Black Sheep Bitter and Youngs Bitter. I tried the Copper Dragon and the Young's, the latter a little warm]. Can recommend the excellent ham butties. The restaurant is now non-smoking all the time, still no food Mondays."; Reply

On 7 February 2005, Jenny wrote re: Fleece (Dolphinholme):"The Fleece's extended restaurant next to the bar is well done. The bar area is kept separate from the food trade - locals input here, and the menu is imaginative with changing specials board. [I had arbroath smokies with melted cheese and a sharp dressing - they came with new potates and 3 veg separately served, followed by cream crowdie (cranachan?)]. Food served till 9 p.m. The other little bar could be available for private meetings. "; Reply

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On 20 February 2005, Michael Simpson wrote re: Highwayman (Nether Burrow):"Pub now open, under new management, very very good food. "; Reply

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On 2 March 2005, C2 Investment Ltd wrote:"It's that time of the year again and the Lancaster Charity Beer Festival is amongst us. This event is a superb advert for real ale with each beer served through a beer engine and over 60 ales to choose from. Now normally, for whatever reason, CAMRA members do not patronise this event to the detriment of both the event and the CAMRA ale enthusiast. C2 Investment, as owners of both the Waterwitch and the Sun, do not gain anything from this event, infact it significantly damages our takings for three days. And yet as a spectacle and PR event it's a huge promotion for real ale and encourages the younger generation to sample the wide spectrum of cask conditioned ales available in the Northwest. Maybe with real ale under constant attack from big brewers, bland nitro beers and pub groups the time has come to forget past disagreements and put the future of classic British beer first. If this falls on deaf ears, why not visit the Waterwitch or The Sun - they'll be plenty of space for you !"; Reply

On 2 March 2005, Collin Bolton wrote re: Royal (Silverdale):"Latest News Is Royal to open with new Manager at 5pm on 3rd March 2005. Watch this space."; Reply

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On 9 March 2005, Steve Atkinson (Kent) wrote:"Having studied at Lancaster in the late 90's, I was not looking forward to a reunion trip, as the pubs, were by and large sub-standard! But what a revelation it was for me. One of our crew still live in Lancaster and therefore we did not have to chance dodgy pubs (much) as he took us straight to where we ought to go. The water witch (where we ate - spot on), I could not believe. Was this the pub that we avoided at all costs? This has to be one of the best pubs I have ever been to. A real treasure. I wish that we had one o these in Sidcup! The Vine, again what a transformation, very good yet it looked like a cheap copy of the Water Witch only because it was not as good. If we had missed the ww off and gone straight there, this would have written very differently. The Ring O'Bells, although shabby, with shabbier customers, the beer was good. Wetherspoons!!! We only went to the southern one - Won't be back. When we did get a beer that we asked for, it was, dare I say it c**p! Robin, our scout did get a bit of stick for taking us in there, but not as much stick for taking us in the next 2 hell holes. The Penny Bank, once the greatest pub in town, now the worst. Or could that be Bentleys. Why the door staff? Is it to actually throw people in? Fibbers awful, Blue Anchor Worse (although suprisingly busy) then to the John! At last, we were home. Steve has gone yet it still appears the same. Same products, same smoke atmos, same crusty customers getting in the way at the bar. Just the way we like it and remember it. A proper pub, where shock horror you can actually drink the beer. Thank god some things dont change. I thought we would be there for the night, until I was rudely nudged and told that we were going to have last orders in another pub. Dragged kicking and screaming to the Sun hotel! I was seduced there by being told that it was owned by the same people that own the Water Witch, but the Sun! I had vowed that I would never return years before, but I am so glad that I was forced there. What an amazing pub. The reason i am rambling on so much is that I looked at this site and did not see anything about the great pubs you have. I know I was not exactly looking for the sun, vine, ww etc as these were not great pubs in my day, but you should be shouting about your pubs from the rooftops, most towns would die for just one of them, yet you dont indicate how good this area is enough. I have since seen Cliff Laines guide to town on the net, but even then, it is all too somber. You are a fortunate branch"; Reply

On 9 March 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"Well - what serendipity - the lads here have managed to acquire some genuine German Dunkels Bier - although not a true real ale it is a traditional brew which is in the same condition as it would be served in Heidelberg or Munich - and is quite delicious and brings many happy memories of backpacking in Germany!"; Reply

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On 15 March 2005, Grant Stringer wrote re: Hustle (Lancaster):"Hi For our information this pub has now re-opened as Hustle. It is open till 2am Monday to Saturday and 12.30 Sunday. There is no cask beer. It does have a wide range of draught including Peroni, Kronenborg Blanc, San Miguel plus the usual Stella, Budweiser etc. It is no longer owned by Honeycombe but by the people the own the Lounge. "; Reply

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On 23 March 2005, Steve Johnson wrote re: Graduate College Bar (Lancaster University):"Just got back from a conference at Lancaster University.Was expecting the worst on the beer front,but after being directed to the Graduate Bar I have to say I was impressed! Three ales on,all in excellent condition! Seems not all student bars have bad beer!"; Reply

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On 6 April 2005, Anna Alajoki wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"John O'Gaunt is the only pub we love to go on Sundays though we have to take a train (bus or car) from Manchester. We thank the musicians and the friendly Lancaster people so much for the wonderful atmosphere there. Anna and Matti"; Reply

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On 12 April 2005, paul crossley wrote re: Boot & Shoe (Lancaster):"on my recent visit to england i found that the beer along with ambience was profoundly charming,and the landlord was forthcoming on which beer would suffice. "; Reply

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On 13 April 2005, Mike wrote re: Three Mariners (Lancaster):"Visited the pub during the Lancaster Maritime Festival - just re-opened after all the work - no kitchens yet but the bar was an improvement on the previous layout. Very busy and all six beer pumps were kept busy supplying a good range of well kept beers. Thoroughly recommend a visit and a report on their future food offerings. "; Reply

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On 23 April 2005, Mike Foster wrote re: Redwell (Gressingham):"Visited lunch time Friday April 22nd. Black Sheep and Timothy Taylor Landlord on offer, both were in good condition. Impressive and extensive lunch menu, competetively priced. Pub was very busy so we waited a while for the food, but well worth it. Staff friendly and on the ball. Would certainly recommend and will be back next time we are in the area."; Reply

On 23 April 2005, Kim Robinson wrote re: Wagon & Horses (Lancaster):"Dave Horner will be moving on from Wagon and Horses pub on the Quay at Lancaster, and I will be taking it over on Wednesday the 4th of May. Over the Bank Holiday weekend there will be bands, partying and fun to celebrate Dave moving on."; Reply

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On 10 May 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: George Washington (Warton):"Had excellent pint of Okells Maclir (wheat Beer) here today. Other recent guests have been Golden Host (Jennings) and Unicorn (Robinsons) all in tip top condition! "; Reply

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On 19 May 2005, Phil Simpson (C2 Investment) wrote:"Thought I'd just post a small note on here regarding beer prices. Many people may have noted how the price of a pint of real ale has crept up in recent weeks/months. Well, it's going to creep up quite a bit more yet. The brewers across the UK, Nationals, Regionals and local independents have all put their prices up astronomically in recent weeks. Brewers are now regularly seeking £60+ for a firkin of, below 4% gravity (!), beer. Circa two years ago most brewers would have been seeking around £40 for the same firkin. This is a 50% increase in 2 years and most of this increase has occurred in the past 3 to 6 months. This increase can NOT be attributed to duty increase but instead it suggests that brewers are appearing to be very greedy and the pubs are going to be forced to pass down these costs to the drinking public. Beware - the £3 pint for 4% beer will be with us within a matter of months... "; Reply

On 19 May 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"These guys don't stop trying - the beer is still quite amazingly well kept and varied - and now they are also trying to make links with the local artistic community with an exhibition of paintings by various artists in the "new" lounge which although not directly real ale related affair, does show a lot of thought. Good luck, too, with the brewery venture - I for one can't wait to see what emerges."; Reply

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On 22 May 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Woodlands (Silverdale):"A pint of Timothy Taylors Landlord today, definitely a Beer to Savour. "; Reply

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On 24 May 2005, Tim Tomlinson wrote re: White Cross (Lancaster):"Just to let you know, we now have Tirril Beer on tap at the White Cross. I am starting just with Old Faithful ( as tried by Prince Charles last month) and aim to keep this as a permaent fixture plus a few visits from Academy and 1823 along side my other guests including Deuchars IPA, Cumberland, Bombadier, Pedigree, Speckled Hen and HobGoblin. Hope to see a few members down here tasting our superbly cared for beers."; Reply

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On 25 May 2005, Amy Elliott wrote re: 1725 (Central Lancaster):"The Blue Anchor is now a tenancy. Plans are afoot to improve both the food and the beer selection "; Reply

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On 31 May 2005, john wrote:"Phil Simpson is talking bollocks!60 pounds for a firkin of 4% beer? Nonsense!"; Reply

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On 3 June 2005, anonymous wrote:"People may know Lancaster Brewery company's Brewer slightly better as Will Pammenter. "; Reply

On 3 June 2005, Phil Simpson wrote:"I must thank John for raising this potential debate - I thought it might have inspired a little more discussion. I noticed CAMRA completely failed to discuss it at the recent AGM. It's hard to believe our sacred breweries are working as a cartel. Here are a few examples of current firkin prices for circa 4% beers: London Pride (4.2) - £68.35 Fullers Discovery (3.9%) - £65.72 Greene King IPA (3.7) - £57.34 Pedigree (4.5%) - £67.20 These are just a few examples (there are hundreds more examples from EVERY brewer, large and small)of the massive rises endured by all pub managers in recent weeks - bear in mind these prices are FREE TRADE prices. God only knows how much the tenants and leasehold landlords are paying. John - if you wish to get in touch to discuss this price issue in more detail, I'd love to show you our most recent price lists and let you read aghast... "; Reply

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On 5 June 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Royal (Burton-in-Kendal):"The Royal at Burton in Kendal are advertising for a new tenant, owned by Avebury Taverns. See GBG. "; Reply

On 5 June 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Malt Shovel (Warton):"The Licencee at the Shovel (Warton) is leaving in November. "; Reply

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On 6 June 2005, john wrote:"phil simpson - fullers beers have been overpriced for years and are not reflective of the general state of cask beer prices.There are plenty of local breweries that charge around 50 pounds a firkin.Ask any landlord and they will tell you the same"; Reply

On 6 June 2005, Julian Holt wrote re: Boot & Shoe (Lancaster):"I visited The Boot and Shoe, Scotforth, Lancaster on June 5th. In addition to the regulars, Beacon and Boddingtons, they were serving Hydes Light, Moorhouse Black Cat, Dent Bitter and Marston Bitter. I didn't try the Boddingtons but can report that each of the others was in absolutely cracking form. Exceptionally well-kept, served at the right temperature and (not always the case in Mitchells' houses) each bearing the characteristic "signature" of the brewery in question. It was also a pleasant change to find a pub with such a wide choice of good session beers as distinct from the high ABV ales that often dominate. The landord seems genuinely committed to well-kept real ale and The Boot and Shoe deserves support."; Reply

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On 8 June 2005, Brewmaster wrote:"I have just seen Phil Simpson's (Sun/Water Witch) comments about the wholesale price of casks to the free trade. I too have seen some of the wholesaler's price lists, but not those of the original brewers. To some extent, he has a point in that the wholesale prices have gone up - Fuller Smith and Turner being a prize example of a brewer who will charge as much as the market will stand - a pint of ESB in most free houses does not come cheap - I think that the current free trade price for 9 gallons (giving about 68 sellable pints allowing for ullage) is about £72.00 Prices in the tied trade have always been a tad cheaper, as the brewer has a captive market, and as Phil also has a sort of tie with Thwaites, Jennings (now part of W&D) and Titanic, he should be able to see comparative figures for supply which is not wholly free trade. However, there is also the point that brews sourced from far afield (e.g. Cornwall, and the far North of Scotland) are going to have an element of transport costs in the final wholesale price - diesel oil is an expensive commodity now, and this expensive substance is being used to move a product which is largely water -so the costs that the entrepreneurial Free House Owner are going to reflect the higher cost of getting the product into the cellar. The issue is not, I feel, as clear cust as Phil imagines and I don't think that as much of the cost increase as he implies is going into the brewer's pocket. Overheads are increasing all the time, and the transport cost factor is far from insignificant. It will be quite interesting to see what a pint of one of his brews costs once Lancaster Brewing Company gets going, and how it compares with the wholesale prices of his competitors - will his 4.5 brew wholesale at much under £60.00 per 9. "; Reply

On 8 June 2005, Phil Simpson wrote:"Brewmaster - you'll have to ask Matt about the Lancaster Brewing Company prices... all I can say is that though the transport costs may be cheap, the cost of the four drayhorses has been astronomical. "; Reply

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On 11 June 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Royal (Burton-in-Kendal):"The Royal at Burton in Kendal now has all the Windows and Doors covered = in perforated metal sheeting (to keep the vandals out)? There is still a = notice outside advertising for a Tenant. It does seem unlikely to open again as a pub. "; Reply

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On 14 June 2005, anonymous wrote re: Punch Bowl (Bentham):"Gale says that she has got rid of the Worthington Bitter and the current sales are Copper Dragon"; Reply

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On 16 June 2005, jeff smith wrote re: William Mitchell (Morecambe):"William Mitchell is now open after refurb new licensee is lee donnelley "; Reply

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On 23 June 2005, Colin wrote re: Golden Ball (Snatchems):"Very good food & drink. At the moment there is Everards Tiger, Batemans XXXB, Moorehouses Premier bitter & a Guest beer (Bass) "; Reply

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On 27 June 2005, Dave Davies wrote re: Malt Shovel (Warton):"Perhaps The Royal at Burton & The Malt Shovels owners should think about the premises & do something with them. Punch (shovel) & Averbury (Royal) need to think clearly about what is achievable from their venues. They have upward only rents & don't make it realistic for business. That is why the royal has had more tennants in the past 10 years than days open."; Reply

On 27 June 2005, Cheeky wrote re: Bar Eleven (Lancaster):"Wow a recent change to Sante Bar & Grill, what an amazing concept. New cocktails & new food. The menu is available all day and is fantastic, unlike some multinational cncepts in town. Sante's 6 monthly changing artwork is now provided by local boy done good, photographer Matthew Macpake, matmacpake.com. His dark images conjure up pure beauty in everyday items that you don't normally find solace in. Go in they are for sale, take one home. Still no real ales, but onderfully kept bottled Konig and various keg beer, in line with the Sun & WW offering. By far the best cocktails in town, plenty of summer variety, lots of fresh fruit & knowledgeable staff. A great venue for lunch, dinner drinks or just a cheescake & glass of wine after work. Probably the most beautiful team in town from the top to the bar staff. I definately reccomend you go there eat drink and be seen."; Reply

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On 29 June 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Castle (Hornby):"This place doesn't look so much closed for refurbishment as closed full stop. It's been boarded up, and there has been no sign of any work now for over a month....."; Reply

On 29 June 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: 1725 (Central Lancaster):"And how! I was advised by a friend that this place had improved - but I was not ready for an improvement of this size -beer range much improved, and Copper Dragon IPA was in top form and a range of about five others on offer - keep up the good work on the beer front. Shame that the pub decor is still so twee, though. Maybe it's just me, but themed pubs seem so dated."; Reply

On 29 June 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"Nice to see that after a few months, the new guv'nor has done so little to the John - it didn't need anything doing, and that's what it got. Same staff, same good food, same good beer, and still one of the best pubs for miles. Shame about the proce rises, but you can't have everything in this world."; Reply

On 29 June 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Fenwick Arms (Claughton):"On a recent visit to the Fenwick they had Black Sheep bitter in above average order, and a pump with a Taylor's Landlord clip turned round because the beer was not in too good condition - at least they did not try to sell the out of sorts Taylors, which I felt was a good sign that they are at least aware of the condition of the ales."; Reply

On 29 June 2005, martin wrote re: 1725 (Central Lancaster):"It'll take a while before the current licensees impose their personalities on this pub, but already there's a lot less clutter than before. Beer range indeed improved, but my Copper Dragon was not impressive."; Reply

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On 7 July 2005, john wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"I have to say how far I think the quality of the beer in the john o gaunt has declined since the change of licensee.They still have the same problem with filthy glasses as well"; Reply

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On 9 July 2005, Glen Stephenson wrote re: Water Witch (Lancaster):"Just by chance, I was lucky enough to have been in the Water Witch when a new pump clip was put on the bar. It was the first barrel of Lancaster Duchy! We were not expecting to be blown away, yet my group remained there for the next 2 hours supping it until it ran out. For a 3.9 it certainly has a suprising amount of body. A truly great session beer. Well done to all those at the brewery as well as the Water Witch team for keeping it so well. Great combination which I can recommend to everyone else."; Reply

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On 10 July 2005, Manor Inn wrote re: Manor (Cockerham):"Master Chef of Great Britain Member Craig Wilkinson (www.bayhorseinn.com) and Ex Jockey Johnny Carroll have taken the Manor Inn(www.manorinn.co.uk) at Cockerham. We will have 4-5 Traditional ales on and Locally sourced bar food. We have gutted the whole pub and re fitted it to a high standard and have opened a old function room upstairs and turned it in to a sports room with a championship pool table, football table, pinball and flat screen tv to show all major sporting events. We will be open at end of July. "; Reply

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On 12 July 2005, Brewmaster wrote:"After a long wait, we finally got to tast the first new offerings from the Lanaster Brewery Co - the 4.3 abv offering JSB - and it was worth the wait - a nicely balanced brew, reddish in colour and sweetish, with neither the malt nor the hops dominating the flavour. In fact, the taste was really rather reminiscent of a lower strength ESB - not quite as fully flavoured, but it gives an idea what to expect. A good idea to keep the strength down, and not to embark (as so many new brewers do) on the KamiKaze Kola route. This is more of a session beer - and the Duchy when it arrives will be more so. Let's be having it, gents. And to respond to John about the beer quality at the JOG - I was speaking to one of the staff there, and they have had a fair number of casks recently which were not too well behaved - I know that there were problems with some of the Tetleys and they sent 3 18's back - and they also have had some very lively Taylors Landlord as well. And to Martin, I am surprised at your reaction to the quality of the Copper Dragon IPA at the Blue Anchor - you posted on the same day as I did, and mine was very pleasant indeed - clear, cool, and tasty. Perhaps you got the end of a barrel, or the start of the next one!"; Reply

On 12 July 2005, Brewmaster wrote:"As I write this, the finish of the new Lancaster Brewing Company's Duchy is still lingering on the back of my palate. I tried another pint of the JSB, and this time, it had been maturing for another day, and it was really starting to motor. BUT - the chocolate malt is starting to come to the front a bit, and the beer has developed a fruitness which could spoil the balance which was in the younger beer that I tried yesterday. It is now rather reminiscent of a blend of Old Speckled Hen and Hawkshead Red. If the brew is being revised, it might benefit from a little more crystal, and a little less chocolate - or a handful of Fuggles to coarsen the taste and texture. I do like the Goldings finish, though! On the other hand, the Duchy was without a shadow of doubt showing the promise of being an exceptionally fine, and easy to drink session bitter - a lovely amber colour, and a beautiful blend of malt and hops with one of the longest finishes I can remember in any brew - and I have been a lover of cask conditioned ales (and have made a few in my time as well) for knocking on for 35 years. This one's a real winner. Nice ones Matt. It was interesting to see, also, that the wholesale price of these brews are in line with their competitors in the wholesaler's lists - and as I recall, one of the directors of C2 (which is involved with this brewery) did post a moan on this site about the high wholesale price of ale today. Still for brews of this quality I, for one, will pay a sensible price. Brewmaster"; Reply

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On 13 July 2005, john wrote:"is the lancaster brewery beer available yet? where can I try it?"; Reply

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On 21 July 2005, john wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"another undrinkable pint in the john o gaunt last night.this place has really gone downhill"; Reply

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On 27 July 2005, Dominic wrote:"I can Guarantee that both the only two beers actually brewed in Lancaster are always going to be available at the Sun Hotel and Bar on Church St, Lancaster! I would like to also guarantee that the Water Witch will also be doing the same, but if you know Barry as I know Barry, NOTHING can be guaranteed. "; Reply

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On 31 July 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Woodlands (Silverdale):"Excellent Pint of Essex Gold here, Also Lancaster LBC. The Duchess was sold out. "; Reply

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On 1 August 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"I popped in for a glass (or two) of lunch today (1.8.05) and there were two unusual visitors here - Wadworth's 6X and Brains SA. Both were in excellent fettle, and tasted just as good as when I have sampled them on their home territory - the 6X had that distinctive Wadworth mustiness about it, which is so often lost due to the beer being served too young - and the SA also was just as good - no dud pints, no dirty glasses."; Reply

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On 3 August 2005, Deborah wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"In response to John’s comments of July7/21 if he could let us know which beer/s he is referring to we could look into the situation. We have been experiencing problems with the cask Tetleys recently which we have taken up with the suppliers. If in future he has any problems with any of our beer/s etc. please bring it to the attention of the bar staff on duty who would be only too happy to try and rectify the problem. "; Reply

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On 4 August 2005, john wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"Deborah Firstly it would help if you beer lines were cleaned between barrels.I have regularly seen a guest beer go and then a different one pulled straight through after it,mixing the dregs of the previous beer with fresh beer.Cleaning the line with water is the bare minimum.It`s not rocket science!"; Reply

On 4 August 2005, john wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"I did in fact bring a pint of batemans xxxb back last wekk to the bar staff and was told "there`s nothing wrong with it mate", despite the beer smelling of vinegar. As for the glasses,maybe try a different rinse aid in your glasswasher.If you get small rings of bubbles on the outside of the glass then they are not rinsing properly."; Reply

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On 19 August 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Malt Shovel (Warton):"I hear that the present Tenant is leaving after the August Bank Holiday and a new Tenant has been chosen!"; Reply

On 19 August 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Woodlands (Silverdale):"It's like visiting an all year round Beer Festival. They have recently had beer from the new Lancaster Brewery and Brysons. "; Reply

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On 28 August 2005, Phil Simpson wrote re: C2 Investments:"C2 Investment is actively seeking to purchase a new freehold pub or pub/hotel in the Lunesdale/Lancashire area - Morecambe, Kendal, Penrith etc would be ideal. As usual we would be bringing with us our usual spectrum of 8 real ales, innumerable bottled beers and idiosyncratic keg offerings. If anyone knows of such a public house/hotel being available please contact me in confidence at yorkiephil@gmail.com It is very hard trying to find freehold property in this area with Punch and their ilk owning 90% plus of local pubs, so any help would be appreciated !"; Reply

On 28 August 2005, Matt wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"Lancaster Blonde at 4.1% will be available at the start of September."; Reply

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On 29 August 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Manor (Cockerham):"Real Ales on offer, Everards Beacon; Black Sheep Bitter; Thwaites Lancaster Bomber; Moorhouses Premier Bitter. All the beers were in excellent condition, the best seller is the Moorhouses @ �1.90 a pint. Plenty of seating downstairs plus a no smoking Dining Room. Upstairs a Gamesroom with Pool,Darts and Sky TV Sports on a wall hung screen. "; Reply

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On 30 August 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"Matt - what is Lancaster Blonde going to be - a "real ale lager", a pale bitter, or what??"; Reply

On 30 August 2005, bREWMASTER wrote re: Black Bull (Brookhouse):"I have now moved to Brookhouse, and this pub is my local - the management appear to be trying quite hard with the food and entertainment. Beer quality on my visits has been variable - usual Thwaites offerings that you get all over town - and the usual emphasis on Smooth from many of the punters. Bitter was on the right side of mediocre on two visits, and bomber was quite good on another."; Reply

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On 8 September 2005, Julie D Kingham wrote re: Dalton Arms (Glasson Dock):"Food on "special board" can be poncy - otherwise good quality & locals are friendly. Landlady would benefit from a sense of humour!! "; Reply

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On 9 September 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"Matt has told me that Lancaster Blonde does not fall into either of these descriptions, and that it is basically a hand pulled beer which uses a quite pale malt, and has Saaz hops in the boil, so my guess is to look out for quite a pale and bitter brew which should be on sale quite soon."; Reply

On 9 September 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"I again have to take issue with John's comments as I have been drinking the Batemans XXXB in here all week, and have not had one dud - they've also got Adnams bitter and Broadside either on or waiting to go on, and the bitter was also extremely good and true to type."; Reply

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On 11 September 2005, tony alman wrote re: Brysons:"good pint of Shifting Sands in the Pump & Truncheon, Blackpool (10.9.05)"; Reply

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On 18 September 2005, anonymous wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"Lancaster Blonde now available at the New Inn at Wray. Gorgeous and dangerously drinkable bitter bitter!"; Reply

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On 19 September 2005, Marcus wrote:"Having set aside Saturday night for "beer evaluation" I frequented all the known real ale hostelries for a sampling evening. The results ? Firstly, the prices. Beer ranged from �2.20 to �2.60 - an unbelievable increase on where we were a couple of years ago. Secondly the quality. Unimpressive - The Golden Lion, Penny Bank, Blue Anchor Reasonable - John O'Gaunt, Three Mariners, Bobbin Good - The Sun Hotel, Ring O'Bells and The Waterwitch. Particularly disappointed with the John O'Gaunt, the beer had a very slight haze and was a tad warm. Penny Bank's Deuchars tasted old. The Golden Lion's beer was undrinkable and the Blue Anchor's ale made my teeth chatter. Nevertheless the "impressive" pubs beers were immaculate and for a Garstang man like myself, Lancaster has become a true haven for cask ale."; Reply

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On 22 September 2005, mick taylor wrote re: Three Mariners (Lancaster):"how on earth the three mariners got in the good beer guide is beyond me! "; Reply

On 22 September 2005, paul wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"I agree the sun and waterwitch serve decent ale but the prices have crept up a fair bit recently."; Reply

On 22 September 2005, Matt wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"Paul's comments about the prices are correct, they have crept up. However, I stand by that rise. For far too long, beer prices have been subsidised by all other products, with the only exception tobacco sales. This myth of value for money ale is unwisely perpetuated by CAMRA. Conversely, highly priced imported Belgian Beers are accepted as they are niche and craft. These are the very descriptions that we should be describing our own beers. As all good members of CAMRA know, there is passion, effort and a driving desire to stock, condition and serve quality ale. The investment in staff, equipment, time and the natural wastage all suggest that smooth should be the direction to take. Within C2i, Lager yields 98% compared to ale yields as low as 87%. I am not drinking all this as I have to pay for all of mine! It has a low yield from its conditioning, venting and tapping. Cellar clarity samples, pull through samples, customer samples, customer end of barrel returns, cleaning the line after every barrel may be obsessive to some, especially with the wastage, yet it is another indication of our commitment to keeping the perfect pint. We thought about displaying a redundant filter pan, (left from a previous landlord) behind the bar to illustrate that we don’t use one and that other landlords may, yet we thought this would offend. After all they are only trying to make a living from an already highly priced product against all the odds. When searching other establishments to compare, I really believe that we fair relatively well. Their business, however, is their business and it is not for me to try and cartel them to raise their prices. C2i pubs were never about being the cheapest; they were about being the best they could. The products costs are proportioned equally in their individual retail prices. If what you receive is unacceptable in either of our pubs, witness the staff reaction. They will not quibble or argue with you. They will rectify the situation and change or replace it for you. The beer will be removed when it is realised it is unfit for sale, and not, as some pubs try to do and pass it off as they need their yield. If anyone would like to come back on this unfortunately lengthy comment (apologies), please do so because I believe the debate could be healthy and constructive. The price ladies and gentlemen is what it is. The pubs are safe, clean, welcoming and friendly venues. What you ask for is what you get, with a refreshing selection of all products to choose from. That is the price you pay for a guaranteed quality pint. Surely that is better than playing “Russian Roulette” in some cheaper, less salubrious venues. I may not sleep well, but it is not through worry about our pricing. PS, I know of two Lancaster venues, well run and worth visiting whose starting prices are 10 p over our own. Good luck to them, it is good to see that we are not alone in the realism of cask ale pricing. "; Reply

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On 25 September 2005, Webmaster wrote re: Three Mariners (Lancaster):"Response to Mick Taylor - the short answer is: that's the way our members voted. If you would care to join us and help us to better decisions, you would be very welcome. Personal note: I was in the Mariners on Friday. The choice of beer was excellent, the two I tried were in good condition and the atmosphere was relaxed and friendly. What more does anyone want?"; Reply

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On 26 September 2005, brewmaster wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"I missed the first batch of Blonde at the Sun, but managed a pint today - it was well worth the wait - uncompromisingly bitter, and quite unlike any other brew that I have tried - the nearest I can get to it is some of the Atlas hand pulled lagers - but where these don't quite work, the Blonde does seem to be right for serving at the cellar temperature of a normal bitter. By the way, the JSB still seems variable, and the Duchy also seems to be changing from gyle to gyle - as far as the Duchy is concerned, this is a backward step, as the first version was fantastic - do remember the old adage - "If it ain't broke - don't mend it". Keep up the good work lads "; Reply

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On 27 September 2005, Roger Cox wrote re: Ring O'Bells (Lancaster):"Shocking! I have heard too many positive reports to let this pass any further. This pub rivals the very worst. It is an example of how not to run a pub. To get served amidst the odditys cluttering the bar, all on stools, allowing no access to the bar without disgruntelment. Smoking and smelling bad are their pastimes as well as being drunk and misfit. Staff served when she finished on the fruit machine. I thought she was just another chav customer as she surely could not be staff playing the bandits in the back room. She resentfully got back behind the bar to serve. Copper Dragon was chosen, mediocre was what we got. I did not return the pint as their was obviously no interest shown as she quickly returned to her soulmate - the fruit machine. Just because this pub serves 6 ales does not make it good. It is an unfinished hell hole of a venue in peach! Personally, I'd rather pay the extra. You want to go here fine, your opinion is no longer wanted!! Roger."; Reply

On 27 September 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"May I enter the debate over price? I have been personally involved in the Real Ale arena for many years, as an employee of a cask conditioned brewer, as a publican/manager/cellarman, and as a seasoned drinker of over 35 years. I fully endorse Matt's comments that price and quality go hand in hand. I have often found that those establishments which offer cask conditioned ales at "cheap" prices do not always offer consistent quality. Yes, if you strike lucky, you may well get a good pint at what you see as a reasonable price - but every day, every product, every pint, week in, week out? By its very nature, cask conditioned ale is going to be inconsistent, and the pub which can put its money where its mouth is, and offer a consistent quality has to do so by losing some of the beer to the drain. I worked in pubs where just about anything that was hand pulled was sold from the top of the cask to the bottom, regardless of quality - protein haze, yeast bitten, ring haze from the cask, vinegary, too fresh, too old and tired - you name it, they served it, and not a lot got changed if it got sent back. You can make a good profit on that "quality" and can keep your prices keen. I have sent back only two pints in the years I have been drinking with C2i, and these were cheerfully and unstintingly changed - no quibble, and in one case, the entire cask was condemned - I have no idea whether the brewer gave the management a cedit either. Compare the prices in the Sun/Water Witch to those in the John O Gaunt - they are actually quite close. a 4.5% brew like Landlord is normally £2.40 in the Sun, and is £2.35 in the JOG. Wholesale prices are creeping up - no doubt about that, and a pub needs to achieve a mark up of between 100 and 120% of the wholesale cask price to cover staff costs, overheads, and ullage. So with brews like Fullers ESB now being well over £72.00 per 9 to the free trade you are looking at retailing this at about £2.50 per pint to make a profit. It must be remembered that pubs are in business both to make a profit, and to serve the drinking public, and this fact must never be lost or overlooked. No profit = no business = no pub = no quality real ale. Yes, there are chains which can offer a pint cheaper - JDW is an example, but their consistency of quality is variable, and they do have the advantage of purchase in considerable bulk - but often of quite short dated casks which need careful cellar management, which they may or may not get. In my book, I prefer to pay about 10p a pint more to be sure that what is in the glass is good, wholesome, tasty, well kept beer - I always have, and I trust I always will. "; Reply

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On 29 September 2005, john wrote re: Ring O'Bells (Lancaster):"I agree the ring of bells is one of the worst pubs in lancaster!"; Reply

On 29 September 2005, cathy wrote re: Queen's (Morecambe):"can anyone tell me what the song is called and who sings it that they play in there all i know is some of the song is " aroud the old camp fire""; Reply

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On 30 September 2005, Home Bruin wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"Went out today and did some (costly) market research into the prices in the town center - in particular the John O Gaunt and the Sun, to see how true is the comment that the latter is a bit expensive. The results for price were:- JOG per pint Taylor's Landlord £2.35 Bass £2.40 Courage Directors £2.45 and prices for others seemed to be in the same sort of region. Sun per pint Lancaster Duchy £2.30 Lancaster Blonde £2.40 and all beers of similar ABV seemed to be priced in the same bands - over 4% seemed to be about £2.40 whoever it was brewed by. Result for price seems to be a draw. Result for taste/quality was Jog Bass - not bad Directors - medicore Taylors - lively but very drinkable Sun Duchy - very good Blonde - very good Ressult for taste seemed to leave the Sun ahead on points. Other town centre pubs have, in the past, not been able to compete at all on quality, and in this respect, the town centre seems to be a two horse race. "; Reply

On 30 September 2005, Home bruin wrote re: Ring O'Bells (Lancaster):"Ring o'Bells is on the way from my workplace to my means of transport home, so nipped in to see what the fuss was about - never again - if this is where Mitchells are going, it's the wrong direction! There've been some bad 'uns in this town before, but this one is going down as the worst ever."; Reply

On 30 September 2005, Home Bruin wrote re: Bar Eleven (Lancaster):"Sadly, it appears that Sante will be changing hands again quite soon."; Reply

On 30 September 2005, martin wrote re: Ring O'Bells (Lancaster):"I never thought I'd be defending the Ring O'Bells, but the worst pub in Lancaster? Worse than Ruxton's? Blob Shop? Bowling Green? Even if you mean "worst real ale pub in the town centre", it's got some stiff competition. If you want chavs and poorly-kept beer, try either Wetherspoons. Also most Thwaites pubs. If you want the bar clogged with people on stools, go to the John O'Gaunt.

RE Mitchells direction - I think most Mitchells pubs have improved or stood still over the past year or so. It's largely down to the licensees. There are some good ones, but too many divvis who don't care about beer. "; Reply

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On 4 October 2005, Phil Simpson wrote:"How refreshing to see some debate on the quality of Lancaster pubs after months of very little on this web page. I think in general it's fair to say that the choice of cask ale has never been better in Lancaster. The quality, however, still leaves a lot to be desired. This should be CAMRA's new campaign, forget the unrealistic "Full Pint" - it isnt going to happen and, if regulation demands it, prices will go up to pay for the tiny increase in beer and the extraordinarily expensive oversized glasses - a "Cask Excellence" campaign would be a far more worthwhile venture. Why don't CAMRA instigate a quantifiable measure of beer quality ? Rather than merely listing the pub in the Good Beer Guide, why not actually rate the excellence of the beer ? Thus, as you walked into a bar you'd see 2005 Beer Quality "A" stuck on the window. Each bar could be rated, publicising the results would be entirely the decision of the pub manager. I think this draconian measure would drag many landlord's cask ale management skills kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. The beauty of this approach is that the mechanism for this beer assessment is already available (see "Rate the Beer here" below). Good quality beer is the best way to promote/save cask ale - poor cellar management is the surest way to kill it."; Reply

On 4 October 2005, David Derham wrote re: Brysons:"We are now brewing Brysons Bitter 3.8% Mitchells of Lancaster are taking our range of beers on a regular supply.. "; Reply

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On 7 October 2005, Stewart wrote re: Ring O'Bells (Lancaster):"Having seen some of the comments about this place, I thought I would give it a try. Out of six pumps, three were actually dispensing, and the half oe Woebley Blonde that I tried was slightly above average - it was clear and drinkable, and was tasty enough, if slightly warmer than it should have been. The place was quite, and I agree that the decor - peachy pink everywhere - is not going to be to everybody's taste. All in all, this will never become the most wonderful pub in the world, but it is not as bad as some that I have seen - I agree that it is better than Ruxtons, and a lot worse than the JOG or the Sun. On a scale of 1/10 I would give it about five."; Reply

On 7 October 2005, Jim Shepherd wrote re: Malt Shovel (Warton):"Just Boddingtons and Worthigton Cask on offer. The Bods is nothing like the original! The One armed Bandit has been moved into the Pool room and a Juke Box installed otherwise much as before. "; Reply

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On 9 October 2005, Michael Wright wrote re: 1725 (Central Lancaster):"Its a lovely hidden jem. it offers quality food at a good price. there is a 2 for £6 specials board which has decent portions. The atmosphere is a friendly one and anyone feels welcome."; Reply

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On 10 October 2005, Derek Bicestrian wrote re: Smugglers' Den (Morecambe):"Smugglers' Den Morecambe,poulton Superb old fashioned pub no jb so conversation ok log/coal fire - convivial atmosphere"; Reply

On 10 October 2005, Jack Beachson wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"John O'Gaunt Lancaster City Centre Not in peak condition, a very slight haze. "; Reply

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On 12 October 2005, Neil Graeme wrote re: Patten Arms (Winmarleigh):"An traditional country pub, which served some of the best ales I have tasted for some time - the quality is obviously a great source of pride to the Cellarman, which is reflected in the standard."; Reply

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On 27 October 2005, martin wrote re: Ranch House (Morecambe):"I'd heard rumours about this place, but on a pub-crawl today, I was impressed. Four really good cask beers and all at £1.40-£1.60 a pint. "; Reply

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On 31 October 2005, martin wrote re: Greyhound (Halton):"Only Theakston bitter and Directors here on Sunday. The John Welsh legacy has evaporated here (unlike his previous berths). Anyone know where he is now? "; Reply

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On 2 November 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"I was in the Sun today, and managed to get a taster of the next of Lancaster Brewery Co's offerings - a 4.9% brew called Flaming Nora - a rich dark brew rather similar to Wychwood Hobgobin in flavour, but with a bit more body. With a few days in the cask, we are looking at a real winner here - a complex and tasty brew that will keep the cold out - and at 4.9 it will not blow the head off at the same time - I have commented before about Lancaster Brewery's ability to produce a very tasty brew which is true to type, and which is not overly strong - well done indeed!"; Reply

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On 3 November 2005, Matt wrote:"Bad lad Brewmaster - wait like everybody else has to! At least its good to see that there are people using these pages. Where is everyone? Are there no opinions good or bad out there?"; Reply

On 3 November 2005, IAN ROBERTS wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"JUST TRIED DUCHY AND BLOND AT THE WATERWITCH.IT TASTED BRILL.WELL DONE TO YOU!"; Reply

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On 4 November 2005, Brwemaster wrote:"Slap on the wrist accepted, Matt, but I still maintain that Flaming Nora is one of the better brews that I have had the good fortune to sample recently - as your customers will discover over the next couple of days. I think you have a damn good brew this time - and I also agree that the discussion on this site is getting a bit thin on the ground - there seem to be only thee and me here - but I suspect that some of the posts don't get past the webmaster - we will see!!!"; Reply

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On 8 November 2005, anonymous wrote re: Golden Lion (Lancaster):"nicky the new landlady give you the welcome that you would expect when using this exellent drinking establishment "; Reply

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On 10 November 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"Young's Winter Warmer is on here at the moment - takes me back to the days when I went to hunt it out in the Yougs houses as it arrived, and usually commented "not as good as last year" - well, this is the first Winter Warmer for about 5 years, and it's beautiful!"; Reply

On 10 November 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"Interesting to see that a pub that is nominally tied to Tetley's has none of their products on offer. Got to say the Taylor's here is a bit variable at the moment, but generally quaffable, and I don't feel that this is down to cellar management as much as the brew itself -it always was a tempramental beer due to quite high residual yeast, and I recall once trying to control it with a harder spile, then the next morning finding about two gallons of the stuff all over the cellar walls and ceiling, and the spile about ten feet from the cask - beer that lively can tend to be hard to handle!!!"; Reply

On 10 November 2005, John Howarth wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"Is it true that Lancaster Brewery intends to move to a site just along the canal from the Waterwitch and open a visitor centre? "; Reply

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On 12 November 2005, anonymous wrote re: Golden Lion (Lancaster):"i have visited the all new golden lion and was very impressed, friendly bar staff and customers great atmosphere recommended to all age groups. i also understand in the new year they will be doing food."; Reply

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On 14 November 2005, john wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"The beer quality in the John O Gaunt has been declining for some time now.You can occasionally still get a great pint but generally the beer is very average now."; Reply

On 14 November 2005, Angryman wrote:"Every week I read about the Sun, the Waterwitch, the John O'Gaunt - are these the only three pubs in town ? Also, wonderful to hear news about Lancaster Brewery - just great - but where's the critique of Bryson's beers ? Are they so bland that they're not worthy a mention ? Also, to the chap who keeps dropping hints about how great the Golden Lion is now - stop it !! This is site for discussion not bland marketing comments about mediocre establishments and after visiting said venue on Saturday I would advise you to read the Trades Description Act before making any further proclamations about this particular hostelry. And another thing - I notice the Ring O'Bells still hasnt dispensed with the offensive terracotta walls - stumble in there without sunglasses at your own risk ! Whilst I'm at - what on earth has happened to the Duke of Lancaster ? - if the light was any more subdued and red you'd have punters wandering in seeking to develop their photos. I know what the new management team are trying to do but a bit of money spent on fixture and fittings might attract their target audience better than red light bulbs and drag acts. And finally -who is this Brewmaster chap ? - thank God for him, the Jilly Goolden of Lancaster real ale - without his hyperbolic nonsense this site would be a thoroughly miserable affair. Hope this posting stirs up a hornets nest - come on you dull, bearded lot, write more comments on this website !!!"; Reply

On 14 November 2005, Roger The Bass Man wrote:"Great To hear from the "Angry Man" Reading into other peoples comments like Martin, Matt and indeed the Brewmaster, you are not alone in your views. However well put and possibly correct your views are, the reason that there are only 3 pubs discussed(aside from the blatent marketing) is because that sums Lancaster up relatively well. The Witch and the Sun have long established themselves as the best in town (expensive, but at least you know what you are going to get), but they are there at the JoG's expense. This was truely a great pub, and I feel that is why people get upset with its apparrant demise. There seems to be no reason for this either. Apart from that, the Yorkshire and the Boot seem to be consistently good despite the fetish for Everards! The Mariners and the Bobbin are good alternatives. The University holds a corker in the Grad Bar (when open) with Furness not far behind. That unfortunately is Lancaster finished in an afternoon! Food for thought I hope for further comment, maybe from other licensees and their customers."; Reply

On 14 November 2005, anonymous wrote re: George & Dragon (Wray):"Superb food - restaurant quality at pub prices. Friendly and cosy."; Reply

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On 16 November 2005, webmaster wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"In reply to John Haworth, I believe this is true, but I wouldn't hold your breath."; Reply

On 16 November 2005, Matt wrote re: Lancaster Brewery Co:"We have every intention of relocating due to our continued success, currently brewing circa 200 bbpm despite our neighbourly house warming! Our move is equally important for our strategic partner MWS Wholesale, who are also growing their Lancaster Depot rapidly. Currently 3 sites have come to our attention, and yes we were hoping to keep things central and have a purpose, i.e. taproom, conference centre perhaps, shop for tourists, as well as brewing at a larger scale. Without giving too much away, one of the sites is a Water Ways Site. There is, however, a communication issue here and has remained that way since our initial discussions. Who knows how this will turn out, but rest assured something will occur. "Holding breath" is a little insulting to our integrity and is also not the option here, this plan is for 12 – 18 months time. We have been true to our word in every other decision that we have made and will remain so. Matt Jackson"; Reply

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On 21 November 2005, Brewmaster wrote:"Nice to be appreciated - even though I am not quite sure what hyperbolic nonsense is - and I don't subscribe to the "Ah it smells a bit like Ugli fruit with just a dash of coal to add to the flavour" school of description so beloved of Ms Goulden. In answer "Who is this Brewmaster chap" - I was almost a CAMRA founder member, and was actually recruited to the Real Ale movement by Michael Hardman - I was a helper at the very first London Beer Festival at Covent Gardenwhere John Bishopp was the cellarmaster. I was trained as a brewer and was doing a degree in Brewing Science when my preference for drinking the stuff took over from learning about it, and my scholarship sponsored by a distinguished brewer of cask ale was abruptly terminated. I have been a manager and a cellar man in various establishments selling real beers of various qualities. My pedigree is therefore quite well established, and I feel that I am quite well qualified to comment on the draught beer scene in Lancaster - even though the town is a bit of a four horse race - Sun, Witch, JoG and Mariners. I can often be found in one or other of the named establishements. "; Reply

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On 22 November 2005, Angryman wrote:"Wonderful ramblings from Brewmaster as usual - who on earth are Hardman and Bishopp ? Sounds like a tremendous 1970s ITV action serial - "...and when Hardman and Bishop got together, it was MURDER!!". Outrageous poppycock. In my endless search for answers to the mysterious Brysons beer I happened upon it in a less than salubrious Mitchells hovel - good grief, no wonder nobody's reviewed the stuff, it contains enough sulphuric aromas to befuddle a Bass man. The whiff sent me staggering to the Vine and Hops - congratulations to Punch Tavern for this miraculous and hugely innovative transformation - beer by numbers and a wine selection rarely seen outside of Kwiksave, combined with the cutting edge styling of a man in a rush - it reminded me of a fashionable gay bar designed by a teetotal straight man. I think Punch should leave it to Judy next time. And another thing - I must thank the "Matt" character who kindly informs us that "holding breath is a little insulting and also not an option". My dear sir it's merely a figure of speech!! I dont think webmaster meant for you to sit in a corner and literally hold your breath [personal abuse censored]"; Reply

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On 24 November 2005, Brewmaster wrote:"Well, Angryman, These two worthies that I mentioned were very early CAMRA members - Mr Hardman was a founder, and Mr Bishopp was one of the early members who actually knew how to look after beer. I have to agree with your comments about Brysons beers and their high sulphur content, which causes a very similar odour to those which Bass and Pedigree used to emanate - when brewed on their home territory. It arises from a high gyspum content in the water - in the case of the two brews named due to a naturally high content in the source water, and in the case of Brysons because of altering the chemical balance of our local water to try to emulate the waters of Burton on Trent. "; Reply

On 24 November 2005, martin wrote:"I should add that IMHO the true claim to fame of John Bishopp is that he invented the beer festival as we now know and love it, or at least has a better claim than anyone else to be its inventor. "; Reply

On 24 November 2005, bernard wrote:"Deary me, Angry Man and Brewmaster, you should get a room! May I suggest the boutique Sun Hotel and Bar! Great rooms with 8 beers downstairs for refreshment."; Reply

On 24 November 2005, webmaster wrote:"I think that counts as blatant advertising, Bernard. Next time you can pay. "; Reply

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On 25 November 2005, Brewmaster wrote:"Hi Bernard Sun hotel - been there, done that, drank the beer, and saw the rooms when they were being kitted out - yes, they are great. I can be found in this establishment (or the JoG) most weekdays. I've probably met some of the other contributors in there without knowing it. TOday, JoG had an excellent pint of Shepherd Neame Bishop's Finger - but a bit steep at £2.50 a pint! Hi Martin Nice to see that somebody else recognises John Bishopp's contibutions to the Real Ale movement. He was a real nice guy, and even forgave me for selling the next day's stock when my stand ran out one night."; Reply

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On 26 November 2005, tony baker wrote re: Masons Arms (Ingleton):"The Beer is appaling and so is the new landlady a "Mzzz" Lowther took over in July 2005,if you go in for a drink or a meal you are then told to park you car elswhere and get off their car park after handing over your money,this has to be the most unfriendly obnoxious landlady in the business horrible beer horrible food and horrible hosts,save your money and keep on driving.Go to the Wheatsheaf in the village instead. "; Reply

On 26 November 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: Duke of Lancaster (Lancaster):"I'm not sure at all what market this pub is now aimed at - I found it quite dingy inside with the dim lighting and not really lending itself to a good session. Beer was not too bad - on the right side of mediocre is about the true description. I doubt that this establishment is heading for the Top Ten in Lancaster!"; Reply

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On 27 November 2005, Amy wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"good pints can still be found here "; Reply

On 27 November 2005, Amy wrote re: Horse & Farrier (Lancaster):"as good as thwaites gets!"; Reply

On 27 November 2005, AMy wrote re: Bobbin (Lancaster):"good beer and good cider!"; Reply

On 27 November 2005, Amy wrote re: Penny Bank (Lancaster):"good addition to city centre drinking "; Reply

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On 2 December 2005, Brewmaster wrote re: 1725 (Central Lancaster):"Well, well, well, well, well. The beer quality here has gone up by a country mile. And the selection of guest ales also appears to be quite interesting and varied. I tried some Batemans' here today, and it was clear, tasty, well on form and well priced. The forthcoming brews promise Young's Ordinary. I think that if the decor was better that the JoG and the Sun might be getting pushed now, as the ale here is without doubt better that it was when I was barred for complaining about an undrinkable and cloudy pint. Keep up the good work, landlord. "; Reply

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On 3 December 2005, martin wrote re: Silverdale (Silverdale):"On a tour of Warton, Yealand and Silverdale today, the beer in here (West Berkshire Full Circle) was discernibly the best on offer. "; Reply

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On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Chieftain (Morecambe):"Busy town centre pub, with TV running constantly. National fizz brands only, no real beer "; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Crown (Morecambe):"restaurant & hotel only NOT a pub"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: George (Morecambe):"Thwaites bitter on handpump, but they seem to prefer to offer the smooth version. Bitter is drinkable, but not enough to go out of your way for"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Chill (Morecambe):"Fizz only The pub name is appropriate for the beer"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Joiner's Arms (Morecambe):"Well kept Thwaites draught mild + bitter, and usually a Thwaites seasonal beer as well. Unspoilt town centre pub, let down by appalling karaoke and live "music" some evenings"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Smugglers' Den (Morecambe):"Well kept pub, with changing choice of four real ales from local and national brands. TV in back bar only, no juke box. Real "locals" pub despite town location."; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: New Inn (Morecambe):"Beers from landlord's tied list. Usually choice of two-three. New landlord installed few months ago, no intention of changing anything. Locals pub"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Office (Morecambe):"Notice in window saying "closed indefinately until further notice""; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Pier (Morecambe):"S&N national brands only. I didn't notice any handpumps when I was there. Drank keg Theakstons mild - which was unimpressive. Looks overdue for some paint inside "; Reply

On 19 December 2005, anonymous wrote re: Shrimp (Morecambe):"Whitbread food pub, with national brands and standard food for family orientated excursions. Not a place to go to drink"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Station (Morecambe):"pub seems to have changing views whether to sell real ale or not - pumps are there, but usually out of use. Pub is really aimed at cheap end of the food market, and also families - has an attached "Wacky Warehouse" which probably brings in more customers than the beer does"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, martin wrote re: Office (Morecambe):"When I went in the other week, it was decidedly short of customers. I can't see how anyone hopes to make it pay. Perhaps this time it is closed for good."; Reply

On 19 December 2005, anonymous wrote re: Tivoli (Morecambe):"This pub looks like its not had a touch of paint inside in 30 years, the upholstery matches. Dark dingy, uninviting. Sells Sam Smiths fizz, usually of low quality. Best thing to drink here is the Sam Smiths own-brand cider. Good example of how to ruin a pub - 25 years ago this was one of the busiest in Lancaster or Morecambe, suffed full of students every night who were simply there to drink the beer. Now its usually totally empty."; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Upstairs Downstairs (Morecambe):"average national beers only Does cheap food, priced for the pockets of OAPs and the unemployed. "; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: William Mitchell (Morecambe):"All beers provided through Mitchells tied list. Quality seems to have improved since the refurb, as also has the pub decor (the horrid timber ceiling has gone). Landlord seems to be succeeding in efforts to keep the local undesirable community at bay. "; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: John O'Gaunt (Central Lancaster):"My experience of the pub since the takeover is that evey pint has been excellent. On one occasion Ian wanted to take a pint off me because he thought it was suspect, near the end of the barrel - in fact it was perfect. In my experience there's nothing wrong with the beer in there. The negative comments all seem to come from one person - well in my view he's wrong"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Ship (Caton):"Thwaites Bitter & Bomber only, but well kept. Landlady/landlord have been in residence for 12 years which must make them among the longest serving in the area. Busy roadside catering trade with big carpark round the back. More locally oriented in the evenings."; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Dog & Partridge (Morecambe):"Greene King beers only, served pretty uselessly. Pub has badly declined in quality in beer and decor. "; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Wagon & Horses (Lancaster):"I've been in this pub eight times since she took over. On five of those I've walked out - on quiet saturday afternoons - after failing to get the bar staff to actually serve me due to their general disinterest. I've seen a snail move more quickly. On the three times I have been served the beer was uninspiring, and on one visit of limited choice. This pub has gone badly downhill."; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Nib (Warton):"In there a few months ago not long after the landlord took over. Choice of three beers, all well served. "; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Eric Bartholomew (Morecambe):"Themed pub for themed people. The McDonalds of the pub trade. Beers OK, and priced for the Morecambe pocket, but like most Wetherspoons the ambience is what you get in an airport lounge, not in a pub. Whenever I'm there I keep looking for the arrivals and departures board"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Golden Ball (Snatchems):"been in a couple of times during the daytime recently for the odd pint. Beer was OK. Just a choice of a couple of beers from Mitchells list, can't remember which ones."; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Fleece (Dolphinholme):"Been in a few times lately, and while the beer is drinkable its not been inspiring - often toward the end of the barrel. Bar staff workrate seems a bit relaxed and more oriented toward banter with the regulars than actually serving. As for the remodelling of the bar, in my view this has had a destructive effect on many of the features which gave this pub it's character. It may make more money now, but much of the old charm has gone. "; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Three Mariners (Lancaster):"My experience of the reopened pub is that the beer has been drinkable, but nothing special. Did the refurb do anything about reroofing the upstairs beer cellar? If it didn't then the landlord will have no chance of a decent pint in summer when the sun gets onto the asbestos roof. My main gripe is the way the bar has been remodelled. It needed doing: as it was the place was unworkable. However the new bar position, combined with the fixed seating under the windows combines to make a very restricted space in front of the bar, and tends to make access to those seats difficult: most times I have seen those tables occupied by just two people, with many others standing. The fixed seats need ripping out and replacing with moveable chairs."; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Dalton Arms (Glasson Dock):"Excellent village pub, serves good pub food.Always possible to find someone to talk to. Only downside is some of the tourists who come in are a bit demanding and intolerant which probably explains the last posters comment. I doubt if the problem was with the landlady, but more with Ms Kingham"; Reply

On 19 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Victoria (Glasson Dock):"Mitchells food-oriented pub for tourists and day trippers. Limited choice of beer fromn Mitchells tied list, drinkable but average. There's a kids playground at the back which sums up the place - lot of money spent on refurbishment a few years ago, nowt since on keeping it that way with resulting decline in standards. "; Reply

Visitor Comments

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Royal (Bolton-le-Sands):"Mitchells roadside eaterie, catering for tourists, day trippers and locals treating the granny to sunday lunch. Beer is usual restricted choice from Mitchells tied list, drinkable but not worth searching out. "; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Dome (Morecambe):"Not a pub, just a theatre bar on the rare occassions the place is open for an event. Bar was previously opened as a pub in its own right, but no longer. Only sells fizz at inflated prices, eminently forgettable."; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Walkabout (Lancaster):"High capacity high volume disco bar catering for the underage market. Breathing space limited - sharp elbows required to get anywhere near the bar. And when you do get there its all overpriced fizz"; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: George & Dragon (Lancaster):"Beer average, service slow, large screen telly has been installed which knocks the life out of the pub. Much of the furniture has been swapped for low-level armchair stuff, not what you want in a pub. Only bonus is that damn carpet has been removed so the timber floor is once again exposed, though sadly damaged. It needs sanding and resealing badly to bring it back to the standards of when Terry had it. At least the furry pink wallpaper went some time ago "; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Davy Jones' Locker (Morecambe):"Basement bar under Clarendon Hotel. Not been decorated in years, with pastiche ancient wood panelling. Downmarket locals pub for local people, kind of place you'd expect to find in Royston Vasey."; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Decades (Morecambe):"If you go in here looking for beer you're definately NOT on the ball. All fizz, only exists to supply lager to daytrippers and people wanted to get oiled in a hurry"; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Bath (Morecambe):"This pub reopened three weeks or so ago after a thorough gutting. I've not had a chance to try it yet, but it must be an improvement from the depths to which this pub had fallen. This previously excellent pub was last gutted/redecorated/remodelled not long after the Boddies sales to Twitbreads, and thoroughly ruined. Lets hope the recent update restores some of the lost appeal"; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Bay Horse (Bay Horse):"Have to question this pubs attitude to customers. During the summer I went in at 3.05PM on a hot saturday, looking for a drink following a walk over Nicky Nook. There were two groups there still eating, and I was refused on the grounds that the bar was closed. The guy behind the bar couldn't give a monkeys about customer service. I wont be going back as long as the current management are there "; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: York (Morecambe):"Hand pump on the bar, as far as I'm aware its not been used for years. If Mitchells had had the sense, this large pub could have been a premium-site family eaterie on the main route into Morecambe. Only problem is they flogged the car park some years ago to build a medical centre. Now its lost it's purpose: too big for the customer base, too draughty and in urgent need of a major refurb (and upgrade to the hygiene facilities). Without the carpark it will probably never be viable - surely only a matter of time before it gets pulled down and replaced with flats."; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Royal (Silverdale):"The beer here is generally of high standard though limited choice. Standard pub food, the bonus here is that theres a BIG garden with lots of kids play equipment to keep them happy while you enjoy the serious stuff. One of the few pubs round here which seems to welcome bikers. Good place to relax after a walk round Arnside or Silverdale"; Reply

On 20 December 2005, martin wrote re: Bay Horse (Bay Horse):"(Reply to JonS) There are a lot of country pubs like that. If they shut at 2pm or 3pm, that's it. Arrive one minute later and you will not be served whatever the circumstances."; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Quattro's (Cabus):"This place stopped being a pub nearly 20 years ago. Even in its previous guise as the Hamilton Arms, drinkers were discouraged. Its a restaurant, pure and simple. Dont bother looking for just a drink"; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Station (Ribblehead):"Spent a couple of saturday lunches in here a few months back. Varied choice of beer, four or five available from S&N and local brands. I drank Theakstons mild which was well served. Food good. Slight language confusion with the foreign bar staff, but thats not much of a burden. Pub is clean, tidy and well presented. Gents loo with a view of Whernside, you can pee in peace and harmony - as long as no-one is camping in the field at the back."; Reply

On 20 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Trekkers (Lancaster):"this is a Virgin railway buffet, with all the benefits (?) of Virgin instant cuisine. I really question why its listed here as its certainly not a pub in any sense or form"; Reply

Visitor Comments

On 21 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Bath (Morecambe):"Whatever the money for the refurb was spent on is totally unobvious as the place is virtually unchanged. Same paintwork, filthy ceiling, cracked loo tiles. I think theres new upholstery, and it looks like the fag burns have been ground out of the parquet floor, but otherwise its the same open-lounge lager floor layout. No real beer, only bitter is overchilled keg Boddies. A pub to be cherished in memory only. Now its a place to avoid unless you are on the lager lout circuit."; Reply

On 21 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Royal (Morecambe):"I've not been in for some years, and at some point the two bars have been knocked into one. However the remaining decor still looks like its sixty years old, though I have to admit a liking to the glazed tile wall. No real beer, I drank Guinness and the chap behind the bar had clearly never been shown how to serve that. It tasted old as well. Few customers (this was 3pm on a Wednesday), just a few pickled OAPs and a couple of the locally DSS-challenged spending their giros. Not worth a visit."; Reply

On 21 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Victoria (Morecambe):"I have many memories of good pints in this pub, after visiting today I now have a stark reminder of why I stopped going. On entry the bar looks dirty and unappealing. There were three TVs running, all tuned to different channels with piped music over the top. The back of the bar was dominated by a bunch of foul-mouthed skinheads (some of whom looked underage to me). Most of the seats in the front were taken some of the local pissed unemployables, all talking about how much they'd lost on the horses, or about the last job they didn't get. The area by the bar was controlled by a bewhiskered tramp, who was being terrorised by one of the local hard girls, trying to prove how tough she was to her boy friend. The only draught beer available was Bomber, cheap at £2/pint. However auspices were poor when the barmaid (again looking underage) seemed surprised that anyone would ask for it. She poured a pint, I paid, and then wished I had not. Tasted like commercial grade lactic acid, with a trace of acetaldehyde for extra bite. By this time I was getting pissed off with the ambience, the failed smoke extractors were making my eyes run and I simply could not be bothered to complain to the young girl - who probably would not have a clue anyway. So I just left the pint and went. I wont be back until the current management changes, and I would suggest no-one else bothers either. The sooner this pub changes hands the better. Poor beer, awful service, and no effective control over drunk customers or apparently underage drinkers"; Reply

On 21 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Office (Morecambe):"As far as I know the ONLY time its ever made money is when it was first opened as the "Whistling Oyster" in the early 1980's. Chap who opened it was a British Airways pilot and he used to smuggle to stocks in duty-free from Belgium. He did a good range of Trappiste beers, and even managed to fly in kegs! However Customs & Excise got him in the end."; Reply

On 21 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Decades (Morecambe):"Going past this place today (Weds) at 3:30, it gave every impression of being closed. "To Let" signs in the windows, along with adverts for upstairs "student flats". Opening hours in the past have been erratic and it could be they've simply not bothered to open during the day however don't be surprised if the place is closed."; Reply

Visitor Comments

On 28 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Decades (Morecambe):"Update to this - pub IS now closed. New sign in window offering it for rent at £10,000 / year for use as cafe / restaurant. Sign says "in need of refurbishment....""; Reply

On 28 December 2005, Nadel Arebi wrote re: Alley (Lancaster):"Vine Lancaster We are now reopened (08/11/05) our hours at present are 11am----11pm we have applied for longer hours this will come through soon. We sell a range of larger including Blanc1664, john Smiths And a guest ale along with the usual bottles and a range of fine wines. "; Reply

On 28 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Calderbank Country Lodge (Oakenclough):"This is an easily overlooked pub, converted from a country house, with a short period as a restaurant. Its around 400 yards downhill from the site of the former Bleasdale Moorcock. Its easily missed, as the only outward evidence that its a pub is a small roadside folding blackboard. However its a hidden delight - set in its own grounds, with ample car and coach parking. The bar is in one of the former reception rooms, while at the back is a large restaurant in a modern extension. Acceptable pub food, whith usually choice of two excellent local ales (I drank the Copper Dragon bitter). Only problem with this pub is lack of customers - the local village is Calder Vale, around a 20 min walk and it seems the locals are too lazy to do it. Landlord is aware of the problem and is actively trying to encourage a passing trade from coaches, and also from the muddy-boots types. To aid this he has created a number of guides to country walks accessible from the pub, all vetted by the local Country Rangers. In addition the pub is excellently sited as a jumping off point for anyone wanting to explore Bleasdale / Calder / Grizedale / Harrisend fells.

A quiet pub in need of customers - so use it! Closed tuesdays."; Reply

On 28 December 2005, JonS wrote re: ():"Zappers Bar Morecambe Prom West This is the open-to-all bar withing the Megazone Lazer shoot-em-up gaming emporium (Previously the Tussauds waxworks) Plastic bar with fizzy plastic beer. Hard to explain the justification for it\'s existance, as the primary market for the lazer gaming seems to be under-18 teenagers. I can\'t see anyone legally old enough to drink actually wanting to go in here."; Reply

On 28 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Conservative Club (Morecambe):"Club closed 2/3 years ago - financial problems I believe (possibly lack of interest after they disaffiliated from the Tory party)"; Reply

On 28 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Heysham Cricket Club (Heysham):"Heyshan Cricket club Heyshan Timber nissen hut type building used as a village social club as well as cricket club. Hard to find - hidden at the top side of the village centre recreation ground. No real beer. "; Reply

Visitor Comments

On 29 December 2005, JonA wrote re: Manor (Cockerham):"Spent a quick visit in here on the way home from work tonight. Last time I was in was 25 years ago, when the place was dingy and rundown. The change is a revelation, one of the few Mitchells renovations which seem to work. The inside of the pub is one well lit large bar, with bare stone / white artex walls, and black roof beams. Theres a dining room and back games room leading off the main bar. The carpeting is an unsual heavy-duty hessian type of material I've not seen before. Four real ales, tonight was two from Moorlands, one from Everards and Black Sheep bitter (which is what I drank). The Black Sheep was very drinkable, but tasted more brackish than normal - I suspect todays drop rapid drop in temperature may have had an effect on the hop flavour. Overall one of the few Mitchells "upgrades" of which I approve and a pub I'd be very happy to drink in more often."; Reply

On 29 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Manor (Cockerham):"Erratum to report sent earlier today: the pub had Moorhouses beer, not Morland! Sorry. stupid typo JonS"; Reply

Visitor Comments

On 31 December 2005, JonS wrote re: Sun (Lancaster):"Here's an alternative view of the Sun. I went in this evening, and yet again (as on every recent visit) had a long wait at the bar. In fact I waited longer at the bar than it took to travel by bus from Torrisholme to Lancaster. Since the expansion the pub is very much a victim of it's own success: the serving area is simply too small. (And I hate to say it, but with the best will in the world the staff are slow). What also worries me about the pub post-expansion is that more than 3/4 of the place is no longer in view of the bar. So what happens when the inevitable trouble develops one day? I really am surprised that the plans passed muster in this aspect. Which brings me to my suggestion: with the current decor the pub really bears no relation to a historic "English" pub, but with the wooden panels behind the bar and the full set of high level pressure fonts it DOES bear a pastiche resemblance to a Dortmund alt beer bar. Why not emulate service there, with waiter service only?? At a stroke control could be regained of all parts of the pub, and also more tables could be crammed into the standing-only area of the bar (which currently is useless because theres nowhere to put a pint). It may sound crazy, but I think it would be worth a try - Lancashires first full service bar on the German model. What do you all think?? PS I had the Lancaster Blond tonight and it was off form. Brackish aftertaste due to stale hops - or possibly overage barrel. Not off - perfectly drinkable, just not up to the normal standard "; Reply

On 31 December 2005, webmaster wrote:"The conditions on the Megazone licence can be read at http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/Documents/Licensing_Applications/MEGAZONE.pdf, in which it is clear that only ticket-holders can be served alcohol and therefore according to my definition, it isn't a pub. There are often a few reluctant fathers hanging around the place (sometimes one of them has been me) but I have never seen one tempted by the offerings on the bar. "; Reply